Lakers/Celtics: Which franchise reigns supreme?


Laker_Celtics_logos.pngLakers fans and Celtics fans do not like each other. True rivals. Some grudging respect through the hate, but both want to take each other out.

And both know they are the best franchise in the NBA. PBT’s Kurt Helin (taking the Lakers side)  and Matt Moore ( Celtics) hash the franchise debate out.

Kurt Helin
: No doubt, you have to respect the Celtics history. The thing is, it is history. Most of their titles came almost 50 years ago — time has passed the Celtics by. They are the Betty White of NBA franchises, still trying to milk a little more out of past glory. They’re still better than most, but the Lakers won more titles in the 80s. More titles last decade. The Lakers are more relevant now.

Matt Moore: And yet barring a KG injury, the path to three straight finals appearances is wide open, including a victory over the Lakers. And recent history won’t overcome the only number that matters. Seventeen.

KH: Sure, 17. Thing is, Bill Russell is not coming out of that tunnel. Larry Bird is not suiting up. The mythology of the Celtics is old, it took buying a title with a lucky trade for KG to get that one more banner. Meanwhile while the Celtics struggled since the 80s the Lakers just kept rebuilding, making smart moves and marching forward. They understand how to win and keep winning. All the Celtics need understand is that window — that imported championship window — is closing fast.

MM: And yet for all their machinations, all their savvy, and all their guile, it still came down to drawing an ace with Kobe and then abusing the luxury tax for them to reach the peal of the mountain, and yet still the C’s hang more banners.

Meanwhile the Celtics’ hard nosed legacy and mystique lived on while the Lakers are no more than a good, not great championship team that lacks effort and heart. Even their former glory is shaded in pomp and circumstance: “Showtime.”

And for all the rebuilding and progress L.A. has made, what do they really have? A window longer by what, 2 seasons, max?

KH: The longer window, even by a couple years, means once again the Lakers will leave this era with more titles than the Celtics.

You are dismissive of “showtime” but it is the perfect embodiment of Los Angeles. This city is about entertainment and winning, and “showtime” means both. Why not win with flair? Not just the Magic-era teams, but now Kobe is putting on a show, hitting fade-away game winners with two hands in his face. Don’t confuse “showtime” with soft. The 80s Lakers were not soft. The Shaq-led three-peat teams were not soft. And if the Celtics think these Lakers are soft, they are in for a shock.

The Celtics legacy? Built on unfair talent advantages for a decade, and tedious physical play. Take the beautiful game and grind it down. Destroy the artistry, ugly it all up. Push, grab and hold. No thanks, I will take the pure game from Los Angeles. Anytime.

MM: You can cherish that pure game all you want, the fact is, that bullying style has been more effective. Beauty’s nice. Strength is better. This isn’t a beauty contest, it’s armed conflict in the gladiatorial arena. You bring the makeup mirror and I’ll bring the crowbar and we’ll see which one walks out.

And you can project all you want for those titles, but it’s not like we haven’t seen the egos in L.A. detonate their title window (hello, 2004!) before. We have what we have, and what we have, is a Celtics franchise with more titles, and who has done it with more nuance and sophistication than simply stocking up on the biggest, prettiest players they can swindle for. And if you want projection, you’ve got to go ahead and tag an asterisk on that 15th championship for not having gone through Boston due to injury.

Furthermore, in the greater franchise context, the Lakers didn’t even start in L.A. They’re the Lakers. Despite L.A. not really being known for its lakes. If it were the Los Angeles People That Only Show Up To Sporting Events Because It’s Fashionable, that would make sense. The atmosphere at the Garden, even the TD Northbank versus the old Garden, dwarfs the experience in the fashion show that is Staples. Boston’s been around forever, and is tied to that city in a way the Lakers will never be because there’s nothing to tie to L.A. Well, besides plastic surgery, perhaps. The Celtics are a classic franchise in sports, the likes of the Packers and Yankees. The Lakers are a championship organization brought out of nothing organic. The Twinkies of sports. Immensely popular, but there’s nothing really there.

KH: Los Angeles is a city of transplants? What exactly is Boston? The place where the first settlers landed — the first transplants? With a team named after the Irish homeland?

Forget it. It’s time to settle this on the court. Again.

So you know what’s going on here: Kurt Helin is the blogger-in-chief of and a lifelong Lakers fan. Matt Moore is the weekend editor of and doesn’t really think either team is the best franchise, he’s just playing devil’s advocate. He tends to think the Oklahoma City Thunder are the best franchise, because he likes Thunderstix.

Patrick Patterson begs: “Please don’t make Space Jam 2”

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LeBron James‘ production company signed a development deal with Warner Bros. That would be the same Warner Bros. which extended its trademark on “Space Jam” recently. Rumors of LeBron starring in Space Jam 2 have been swirling for years. If they do it, Blake Griffin wants in.

Patrick Patterson wants the entire thing to stop.

Writing at The Players’ Tribune, the Raptors forward begs for there not to be a sequel to the Michael Jordan original.

I’m a huge movie fan. Movies are a big part of my life. This summer I even had the opportunity to help cover the Toronto International Film Festival for the CBC. So please know that I don’t say this lightly: The original Space Jam is the perfect movie. The. Perfect. Movie. It is a cinematic experience.

And that’s why, for the sake of preserving its greatness, we must never try to improve upon it.

To make a sequel to Space Jam would be like trying to paint the Mona Lisa again. Sure, you can probably do it, but why the hell would you want to?

First off, not sure the realism of Renaissance art is the best comparison for Space Jam. It was more cubist Picasso at best.

But I appreciate what Patterson is saying. If someone decided to remake “Godfather II” I’d march in protest. If they decided to remake “Network” I’d… actually, that’s pretty much what the news looks like now.

Patterson’s love of Space Jam exceeds mine (he calls Bill Murray the glue guy of the film), and I respect that. But this sequel is happening, and even Patterson knows why — money. A lot of people are going to make a lot of money on this movie, even if it gets a 28% at Rotten Tomatoes.  Warner Bros. is not in the business of making good movies, it’s in the business of making money through movies, and franchises go a long way down that road for studios.

Let’s just hope the take the time to get a decent script together for this. Nobody wants another Godfather III on our hands.

Atlanta Hawks waive Jarrett Jack

MIAMI, FL - DECEMBER 28: Jarrett Jack #2 of the Brooklyn Nets dribbles during a game against the Miami Heat at American Airlines Arena on December 28, 2015 in Miami, Florida. NOTE TO USER: User expressly acknowledges and agrees that, by downloading and/or using this photograph, user is consenting to the terms and conditions of the Getty Images License Agreement. Mandatory copyright notice:  (Photo by Mike Ehrmann/Getty Images)
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Last summer, the Atlanta Hawks signed Jarrett Jack to provide a veteran backup for Dennis Schroder.

But Jack has not recovered from the major knee injury that ended his season after 32 games. He hadn’t played with the Hawks throughout the preseason.

Thursday, the Hawks waived Jack, the team announced. He had a guaranteed contract for the veteran minimum (just less than $1 million), and he will still get paid. The Hawks just wanted the roster space and didn’t see him returning soon enough to help them.

If he can get healthy and prove it, another team will likely grab him during the season (some team will suffer point guard injuries and be in the market). For now, he has a lot of rehab in his future.

Malcolm Delaney, the former Virginia Tech star who spent the last five seasons playing overseas, will not be the Hawks backup point.

Report: New CBA deal “within sight,” one-and-done rule remians

NEW YORK, NY - JUNE 23:  Commissioner Adam Silver concludes the first round of the 2016 NBA Draft at the Barclays Center on June 23, 2016 in the Brooklyn borough of New York City. NOTE TO USER: User expressly acknowledges and agrees that, by downloading and or using this photograph, User is consenting to the terms and conditions of the Getty Images License Agreement.  (Photo by Mike Stobe/Getty Images)
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Nobody likes the NBA’s one-and-done rule. Adam Silver and the owners want to extend that to two seasons out of high school, and they have colleges in their corner (while a couple of coaches know how to work the one-and-done system, none of them prefer it). The players want to be able to make the leap from high school straight to the NBA — if you’re 18 and good enough to play, you should be allowed to play.

The result of that will be the compromise nobody loves will stay in place.

The league and NBA’s players union met again on Thursday, and the two sides got close to a deal, reports Adrian Wojnarowski of The Vertical at Yahoo Sports.

Also, the rookie and veteran minimum scale deals will increase, plus the “over 36 rule” (which prohibits a player from signing a five-year deal if he turns 36 during the deal, it can only be four years) will be changed to an “over 38 rule” according to Wojnarowski.

We knew before today was the revenue split between the owners and players would remain the roughly 50-50 split agreed to in the last CBA — and once the money is figured out everything else usually falls in line. The players are pushing or a fund to help retired players who need assistance with medical and other expenses, that seems to have traction with the league as well.

Adam Silver is meeting with the NBA owners the next couple of days and much of the discussion will certainly center around what is in the new Collective Bargaining Agreement. However, with all the money flooding the system with the new television deal — it wasn’t just the players getting an infusion of cash into salaries, the other half of the money went straight to the owners’ bottom lines — it’s expected a deal gets done. Nobody wants to kill the golden goose.

NBA to broadcast one game a week in virtual reality

NEW YORK, NY - OCTOBER 13:  Customers try the new PlayStation VR at Sony Square NYC on October 13, 2016 in New York City.  Sony launched its $399 PlayStation VR that links to PlayStation 4  to give gamers a virtual reality gaming experience.  (Photo by Justin Sullivan/Getty Images)
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If you’re already playing “Sonar” or “Feral Rites” or just “The Lab” in virtual reality, why not get a closeup look at Stephen Curry draining a deep three, or Rudy Gobert rejecting a shot at the rim. And I don’t mean in a video game.

The NBA is going to start broadcasting one game a week in virtual reality, the league announced Thursday. It has partnered with NextVR to broadcast at least one League Pass game a week in VR — the NBA is the first major professional league to do it (although NextVR did already do the U.S. Open tennis tournament, The Masters, and other big events).

If you have an NBA League Pass and a Samsung Gear VR headset (or compatible smartphone) you can pay to watch the games — but the first one is free. On Oct. 27 the Spurs visiting the Sacramento Kings fans can watch Kawhi Leonard shut down Ben McLemore in virtual reality for free.

From the NBA’s press release:

Fans with a Samsung Gear VR headset and a compatible Samsung smartphone can experience the free preview by accessing the NBA Channel within the NextVR app. Later this season, the offering will be expanded to support additional VR headset options.

The weekly games will be available as part of the NBA LEAGUE PASS full season package. Whether purchased through a third party distributor or directly through the NBA, fans will be able to authenticate their accounts by inputting their NBA LEAGUE PASS login credentials (obtained at or the NBA App) within NextVR’s app.

The VR broadcasts will be fully produced with dedicated announcers, multiple unmanned camera angles and optimized graphics. Game breaks will be filled with in-venue entertainment, behind-the-scenes footage from the arena and VR-specific commentary.

Sounds promising.

I’m not about to speculate on the popularity of this, but smart move by the NBA to get out in front of this and try it. You have to love that the NBA is adventurous and will push the market, the NFL probably won’t try this until 2036.